Good presentation
Why Linux Sucks
dicklord++
driver issues: that’s more of a manufacture issue
updates that broke core functionality: ok, sure - but that’s mainly on ubuntu/fedora systems
lack of software: uh, what are you talking about? i’ve actually found more software for linux than windows (and for no cost)
unity: yeah, it sucks - don’t use it; there’s plenty of other DEs that are great (openbox, etc)
xorg not working after a kernel update? what the fuck?
packaging: it’s not that big of a deal since .deb/.rpm can simply be extracted and copied manually; package managers such as pacman pretty much eliminate this problem. Arch (pacman) is pretty straight forward as far as making your own packages since it’s just a tarball compressed with LZMA2 with the directory structure of where the contents of a package goes. of course, this can all be avoided if people simply compile from source all the time.
this guy has some valid points, but he over generalizes a lot…
[quote=“t4, post:3, topic:442723”]driver issues: that’s more of a manufacture issue
updates that broke core functionality: ok, sure - but that’s mainly on ubuntu/fedora systems
lack of software: uh, what are you talking about? i’ve actually found more software for linux than windows (and for no cost)
unity: yeah, it sucks - don’t use it; there’s plenty of other DEs that are great (openbox, etc)
xorg not working after a kernel update? what the fuck?
packaging: it’s not that big of a deal since .deb/.rpm can simply be extracted and copied manually; package managers such as pacman pretty much eliminate this problem. Arch (pacman) is pretty straight forward as far as making your own packages since it’s just a tarball compressed with LZMA2 with the directory structure of where the contents of a package goes. of course, this can all be avoided if people simply compile from source all the time.[/quote]
Uh…
Driver issues: You passing the blame displays a massive misunderstanding of what they were trying to do in the video, show why in comparison to other operating systems, Linux sucks. Me knowing that all these issues are someone else’s fault doesn’t make Linux any better. It’s still just as bad, I’ll just have someone else to blame.
Updates: “Oh that’s only the most widely used and popular distributions out there”
Lack of software: Did you even listen to what he was talking about? Yes there is a lack of software, lack of software people want to use. It’s nice coming up with all these alternatives, but there is a reason people do not want to switch to them - they’re usually not as good, not as widely supported and people are not trained to use them.
I think you are looking at this from the completely wrong perspective.
[quote=“tL, post:4, topic:442723”][quote author=t4 link=topic=545406.msg3997922#msg3997922 date=1337538455]
driver issues: that’s more of a manufacture issue
updates that broke core functionality: ok, sure - but that’s mainly on ubuntu/fedora systems
lack of software: uh, what are you talking about? i’ve actually found more software for linux than windows (and for no cost)
unity: yeah, it sucks - don’t use it; there’s plenty of other DEs that are great (openbox, etc)
xorg not working after a kernel update? what the fuck?
packaging: it’s not that big of a deal since .deb/.rpm can simply be extracted and copied manually; package managers such as pacman pretty much eliminate this problem. Arch (pacman) is pretty straight forward as far as making your own packages since it’s just a tarball compressed with LZMA2 with the directory structure of where the contents of a package goes. of course, this can all be avoided if people simply compile from source all the time.
[/quote]
Uh…
Driver issues: You passing the blame displays a massive misunderstanding of what they were trying to do in the video, show why in comparison to other operating systems, Linux sucks. Me knowing that all these issues are someone else’s fault doesn’t make Linux any better. It’s still just as bad, I’ll just have someone else to blame.
Updates: “Oh that’s only the most widely used and popular distributions out there”
Lack of software: Did you even listen to what he was talking about? Yes there is a lack of software, lack of software people want to use. It’s nice coming up with all these alternatives, but there is a reason people do not want to switch to them - they’re usually not as good, not as widely supported and people are not trained to use them.
I think you are looking at this from the completely wrong perspective.[/quote]
Driver issues: you can’t say an OS sucks because hardware manufactures don’t always put out drivers…
Updates: Yes, there’s obviously something wrong with that, but it doesn’t inherently mean that the OS is bad. Ubuntu is bad, Linux as a whole is not.
Lack of software: I still have no idea what you’re talking about, 90% or more of all software I use is either made for Linux or cross-platform - not because I am forced to, but because I find the software to be as good as the competitors or adequate for my needs.
You have completely missed the entire point of the video.
Well done.
[quote=“tL, post:6, topic:442723”]You have completely missed the entire point of the video.
Well done.[/quote]
considering i watched only 20 minutes of it, i guess that’s possible.
Just a few things I want to nit pick.
The first two main arguments I saw where that user experience changes too dramatically, and that big updates break things. Both of these aren’t a reason why linux sucks, it’s a reason why bleeding edge distributions suck (and even then it’s an opinion, people do use and like bleeding edge because of what it is). You don’t get to say linux sucks because bleeding edge distros change the user experience frequently for the same reason you can’t say all ice cream sucks because yours tastes like chocolate. Besides, there are quite a few long term support and stable distributions that don’t change the user experience often, that don’t update every half a year and don’t generally break on updates.
The argument about distro codenames(see: beefy miracle) is a non-issue since os and major project with codenames has this issue, it’s just only slightly more pronounced for linux due to the rapid release cycle of many distros. Towards the end of the video they also make a dig at Mac OSX saying “Mac OSX 10. – whatever kitty kat they’re up to now”.
I also have a problem with the fact that they want a unified package manager, they’re complaining about updates breaking things but a unified package manager is almost guaranteed to break everything for every distro, and while the benefits of a unified package manager would be obvious once it’s implemented it’s problematic because people still can’t agree on what is currently the best package manager. They all have pros and cons and that is part of linux, you pick what suits you best rather than something someone else picked as a one solution for everything.
That’s my main gripes with the video. I do want to say that while it’s true that linux is negatively affected for driver issues and lack of software/games, the blame for this should always be with the manufactures and developers. Developers use the excuse that there’s no market for their products on linux but at the same time refuse to create a market, and as a result many people who would use their products on linux are forced to use osx and windows.
I also want to say that in the beginning they bring up that you wouldn’t want to recommend linux to people, and that it should be changed so you can recommend linux to people. I don’t think anyone should be recommending linux as an alternative to windows or mac, it’s a niche product and should be treated as such, and just because it’s a niche product it shouldn’t be treated as an underdog like it currently is by manufactures and developers.
tl;dr linux does suck but many of the arguments they bring up neglect information that would make the argument redundant
The blame is wholly and entirely irreverent. They are identifying causes as to why Linux sucks. Driver and software issues are part of that, regardless of who is the cause, the experience and result is the same.
lol ‘we need 15 people to leave’ how lame
also, this is wrongly titled by the guy who did the presentation. should be “Why A SPECIFIC AREA OF Linux Sucks”, because around 8 mins into the video, he says “Linux is a server”, “Embedded Linux”, etc are ‘insta winners’ because “it’s awesome”… wtf…
Yes, tL is spot on. This has nothing to do with blame whatsoever, there IS a problem, and this man goes over a list of things that can be done to stop these problems. Sadly most neckbeards won’t accept his suggestions because they’re all too busy sucking Stallman’s dick, and as such are stuck with an elitist product.
@ t4: Lack of software is a well known fact. He sums it up nicely when he says that 5 paid developer will in most cases do more progress in a year than 50 volunteer developers who only work when they feel like it. Good products NEED funding. Every part of Linux that is actually GOOD has been funded by big corporations (specifically, the Kernel).
[quote=“Speljohan, post:11, topic:442723”]Yes, tL is spot on. This has nothing to do with blame whatsoever, there IS a problem, and this man goes over a list of things that can be done to stop these problems. Sadly most neckbeards won’t accept his suggestions because they’re all too busy sucking Stallman’s dick, and as such are stuck with an elitist product.
@ t4: Lack of software is a well known fact. He sums it up nicely when he says that 5 paid developer will in most cases do more progress in a year than 50 volunteer developers who only work when they feel like it. Good products NEED funding. Every part of Linux that is actually GOOD has been funded by big corporations (specifically, the Kernel).[/quote]
maybe i’m missing the point again, but there is such thing as non-free software for linux.
haha, an arch user saying that “updates breaking core functionality” is an ubuntu problem - not been an arch user very long, i take it?
all of the stuff he and people in this thread said sucked has been funded by big corporations too, so apparently that doesnt mean shit
most of his solutions are contradictory and don’t offer any real solution though, see his example with a unified package manager
and arguably there isn’t an issue with software being non-free, why do you think wine exists?
I haven’t watched the video but I would like to comment on this at least. I think you DO want to recommend linux to people, even MOST people, just not to everyone. A hardcore computer gamer doesn’t want to use Linux because his games don’t run under it, perhaps a business who has been running some shitty proprietary one-off type of software wouldn’t want to run it for the same reason on the desktop. The people I recommend it to, and sometimes even end up installing it for them, is your average computer user. The moms, dads, aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas of the world. These are the people who turn on the computer and double click something to use ‘the internet’. Hopefully most of them are already using Firefox or chrome, in which case nothing needs to change. If they are still using IE, chances are they also don’t know or care if that continues. I have Linux (Kubuntu, specifically) running on all my parents computers, my mother-in-law’s laptop, and my brother-in-law’s computer (he plays xbox, not computer games). I also installed it a few months ago on my neighbors computer, not one of them has any complaints. They can look at craigslist, do their email, and occasionally type a document up and print it from OpenOffice (or LibreOffice now, I guess…). This is where Linux shines, it needs no maintenance, and you don’t have to worry about spyware and keeping your crappy anti-virus up to date and paid for which just slows things down. Also, since it requires far less resources than windows, they don’t have to buy new computers for quite a while.
It seems to me that most of the people who complain about ‘linux’ and ‘drivers’ and who say they have experience with this probably last tried a number of years ago. When I first started using Linux full time around 2006, it was pretty rough. Most things had a kink, and it was a nightmare to get almost any wireless or audio card to work. When installing linux on a new laptop you had to put at least a few hours aside for afterwards for googling issues and finding solutions, usually hacky, to get things working right. I haven’t had to do any of that for years, if any of you have installed Windows XP, or even Windows 7 in the past, installing Ubuntu or Kubuntu now is far easier a proposition. When you finish, everything “just works”, no googling for a thousand programs and drives to make windows work. You have all your hardware working, and pretty much all the software a normal user would ever need. Linux is the way to go.
Oh I agree that linux would be perfect for someone who just uses firefox and a few other small things that run well, in my experience it’s the things that refuse to well that severely detract from linux. My brothers laptop had quite a lot of problems with vista and wireless randomly disconnecting so I installed fedora with his consent, and after a few weeks he didn’t have any problems with it. Well, just some small issues, the battery bar was pretty iffy(a problem with the laptop rather than the distro), minor things here and there that weren’t polished. It became evident pretty quickly that quite a lot of software he required simply didn’t work in linux through wine and using a vm was too much of a hassle and too taxing on the system, in the end it was just easier to install windows 7.
the last linux install i did (fedora) was actually way easier than the recent windows 7 reinstall i did when i bought new desktop - the windows 7 required fucking around with getting extra drivers on a cd and stuff, linux did not
Really? It’s the other way around for me, I don’t need to install any drivers on windows 7 and it works fine, linux I have to fuck around with proprietary bullshit for 3 hours and even then it still doesn’t work.
windows wouldnt even install on this machine without a driver cd
[quote=“eczema3, post:18, topic:442723”][quote author=Mopman link=topic=545406.msg4001777#msg4001777 date=1338122247]
the last linux install i did (fedora) was actually way easier than the recent windows 7 reinstall i did when i bought new desktop - the windows 7 required fucking around with getting extra drivers on a cd and stuff, linux did not
[/quote]
Really? It’s the other way around for me, I don’t need to install any drivers on windows 7 and it works fine, linux I have to fuck around with proprietary bullshit for 3 hours and even then it still doesn’t work.[/quote]
And when was the last time you tried that and with what distro? Chances are, if you install Ubuntu (or Kubuntu, same thing) everything will ‘just work’ no problem.
WINE is great for what it is, but you can’t expect a lot of programs to run perfect with it. The better option is to find a linux alternative to it, and for your average computer user out there, there are plenty of very good options. Also, Ubuntu or Kubuntu is bound to be more polished as a desktop distro than Fedora.